Bears still shit in the woods, your experience is still not universal, and other obvious truths.

By | November 22, 2010

Is this tomorrow? If the vicious fat gangs have their way, yes!

Pictorial representation of life under the towering monolith of Fatscism.

Via the power of the Twitternets, Lauren of Pocket Rocket has pointed out a… well, a really very strange interview on Real Bodies Unite, a UK site advocating for body diversity in fashion. The subject is Vanessa Reece, a coach/consultant in the field of internet promotion and marketing. Evidently Reece also used to be fatter, and was a fatshion blogger at one time, though I have to plead ignorance of her credentials there, as I’ve only ever had glimpses of her in these circles on Twitter.

Over the course of the two-part interview, Reece expresses some strong opinions about fatness, fat fashion, and fat acceptance. Now, none of this would be distressing if Reece had restrained herself to speaking about her own life and choices, on which she is the undisputed expert. I am in favor of people finding happiness and fulfillment by whatever path they choose, so long as they support the rights of others to make their own decisions and don’t prescribe behaviors. But in an unexpected, apropos-of-nothing turn, Reece chooses to take vague aim at fat activism:

What advice can you offer to other men and women who want to make a change to their lifestyle but are struggling?

Look at the facts before you look at the plus-size community. I was very well known in that community for a long time and very few people within it offer advice on how to make changes should you wish to. I support the people that are brave enough to.

Be under no illusion! Some of the most well known people in that community either struggle with depression, inner self doubt and or health issues. If they tell you otherwise I’d wager they are in the grip of denial as I was or they’re just happy to stay in the gang. Hard facts hurt but addressing them may just extend your life span and comfort. It’s not about acceptance it’s about education. I’m sick of hearing the word acceptance being used as an excuse not to educate people on the facts.

I would say be brave. It’s easy to be ‘one of the gang’ but far harder to be the leader of your own destiny.

I’ll admit my hackles were raised mostly at the passive-aggressiveness of these statements, which seem intended as a warning against falling in with a dangerous “gang” of self-accepting fatasses. But what’s really troubling is Reece’s assertion that everyone’s experience insofar as dealing with depression, “inner self doubt” and/or “health issues” matches her own. This is essentially the opposite of good body activism, which should emphasize subjectivity and body autonomy over universal expectations and norms.

In part two, Reece adds:

Teens and twenty somethings are particularly easy to target if you sell them the right ‘dream’ which in this case is plus-size fashion and that ‘fat’ = strong, happy, comfortable etc.’ Until recently I drank that kool-aid up and I believed it. I woke up with new eyes and strong consideration of the facts and I can speak for myself without the need for a garment to do the talking for me.

To all those teens and 20 somethings who currently are overweight I would say, enjoy the fashion because it’s beautiful but don’t use it as justification to stay overweight forever. When the time is right for you, you’ll see that the majority of obese people really are not truly comfortable physically or mentally and those that are either in denial (and will hate you for pointing that out as I used to be when someone questioned my health and weight) or luckily have not yet suffered any health effects from their weight.

What we have here is a straw-man soiree. Who is “targeting” young people, and for what purpose? Whence are these messages that “‘fat’ = strong, happy, comfortable etc.’” being issued, and where are they receiving such wide exposure? None of that matters. What matters is THEY’RE DOING IT! AND WON’T ANYONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN? Reece’s comments here seem to paint a picture of a culture that is secretly run by dogma-enforcing fat acceptance operatives, in which obesity panic goes ignored — a world gone maaaaad! It certainly isn’t a world I am familiar with. Enjoy the beautiful fashion? I’d love to! Where the fuck is it?

When people make accusations of groupthink or a monolithic “gang” mentality amongst social justice activists, they are serving one purpose: to discredit the opinions and experiences of marginalized groups. When people call me out on something I’ve said that is problematic, it’s way easier for me to put them down as pushing some self-interested agenda, knee-jerk and zombie-like, than it is for me to actually stop, think, and consider that my experience may not be universal, and my opinions may be poorly informed. It’s difficult to admit that I don’t know everything in the world — it’s very difficult for me personally, as I am by nature an insufferable know-it-all — but it helps to realize that not knowing everything means I get to keep learning, and that makes my life far more interesting.

The intro paragraph to the first part of the interview makes brief mention of Reece’s movement from self-acceptance toward emphatically advocating weight loss and calls this shift “controversial” — but there’s nothing controversial about it. The idea that body acceptance is dangerous and wrong, and that weight loss is necessary and rewarding, is the prevailing ideology in the UK, as well as in the United States and pretty much all of Europe and lots and lots of other parts of the world too. That ain’t controversy — that’s right on trend. What makes this scenario strange is that this is an interview appearing on a site that purports to be campaigning for a diversity of bodies in fashion — an idea which IS controversial — and so many of Reece’s comments are extremely shaming, presumptuous, and just plain old offensive.

BE UNDER NO ILLUSION, folks: There is no universal bodily experience, no matter your size, no matter your circumstances, no matter what. We do not come off an assembly line, identical in composition and purpose. I believe Reece when she says she was a miserable huffin’-n-puffin’ fatty with eating habits that didn’t work for her, and so she felt compelled to change things. I totally believe her, and why wouldn’t I? I can’t know how she feels; I trust her with her body as I would have others trust me with mine. But her assertions that all fat people must be as miserable as she was (or is) strike a sour note. (They also, frankly, make me doubt her exposure to fat acceptance at all, because the FA blogosphere is filled with the stories of fatties who, for example, go to the gym regularly and cook nutritious meals at home, things Reece seems to believe no fat person does.)

It is okay to make choices for yourself, on your own terms. You have a right, always, to draw your own boundaries, and to have those boundaries respected. However, making sweeping generalizations about the allegedly-uniform experiences of ALL fat people reads like a sad effort at validating one’s own choices. A weight-loss advocate arguing that ALL fat people are depressed and ill (and those who claim otherwise are in “denial”) is actually no different than a fat-accepting person arguing that ALL fat people are perfectly healthy and happy, and any fat person who expresses a different experience is a liar. And you know what? You don’t need that validation — you don’t need to convince the whole world that everyone is just like you in order to justify yourself. If it is good for you, then that is enough.

There is power in making our choices and standing by them. Where Reece chooses to shame all bodies over a certain unnamed size, we must pair our personal convictions with a willingness to respect the bodily autonomy of people with different identities, perspectives, and circumstances if we are to have any hope of building a culture that truly reflects the breadth of human body diversity. In one of the quotes above, Reece counsels us to “be brave” and face the universal truth she proposes, as though losing weight were a radical departure from norms and expectations. The deeper implication being that body acceptance is a form of cowardice.

This, ultimately, was the point that offended me most. Whatever ill may be spoken of all of you, those who believe and doubt, those who ask questions and debate facts, those who strive to understand the feelings and positions of people who differ from you, those who still fight with disordered eating and eating disorders, those who struggle with accepting the person you are and with discovering the person you want to be, those who battle with daily visibility and grotesque harassment and well-meaning concern and the wish, understandable, forgivable, to just be “normal”  — none of you want for bravery. Indeed, you are the bravest people I know.


49 Comments

Nyssa23 on November 22, 2010 at 1:03 pm.

Enjoy the beautiful fashion? I’d love to! Where the fuck is it?

THIS +1000.

This whole thing reminds me of a gyno who once told me there was no way I could be happy at my size. Sadly, I was just a chublet then so didn’t know enough to call him on his BS. Oh well, live & learn.

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notblueatall on November 22, 2010 at 1:07 pm.

Ugh! What she said just scraped against my eyes. How could someone (whom I have never heard of either) say such things knowing quite well what it feels like to live in a fat body in this modern society? So weird to me.

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SweetAsCake on November 22, 2010 at 1:52 pm.

Very well said. I am sick and tired of seeing those of us on the *fringe* accused of conformity by those in the mainstream! It’s utterly absurd.

I’m going to ‘fess up – I’ve been hanging around the fatosphere for a couple years now, and, during that time, I lost weight – going back to the inbetweenie I was before having kids. I believe this happened for a variety of reasons, but mainly because, genetically, I just *am* a size 14. I mean, my weight is affected by my diet and exercise habits, sure, but I recognize that it is affected more than some people’s, less than other people’s, and in different ways. I also recognize that, while I am (slightly) more comfortable as a 14 than as a 22, and exactly as healthy, that isn’t true for everyone, either. Some would be no more comfortable, less comfortable, less healthy, or just not consider it worth it. That is entirely *their* business and I support them.
Why, then, I wonder, do some people who lose weight feel the need to see themselves as heroes who have come out on the right side of some universal moral struggle? I suspect it’s because they are actually still dissatisfied – with their bodies, with the lifestyle they subject themselves to in order to maintain them – that they need to create this artificial sense of virtue/honesty/etc. I mean, if Reece is actually happier and healthier, why does her happiness require that no person who is still “obese” can be truly happy? On the other hand, if she’s miserable and doing what she believes she has to do because of the “obesity epidemic” propaganda out there, her zeal to spread the fear suddenly makes more sense.

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spacedcowgirl on November 22, 2010 at 1:59 pm.

“Whatever ill may be spoken of all of you, those who believe and doubt, those who ask questions and debate facts, those who strive to understand the feelings and positions of people who differ from you, those who still fight with disordered eating and eating disorders, those who struggle with accepting the person you are and with discovering the person you want to be, those who battle with daily visibility and grotesque harassment and well-meaning concern and the wish, understandable, forgivable, to just be “normal” — none of you want for bravery. Indeed, you are the bravest people I know.”

This is so beautiful and true. Excuse me, I think there’s something in my eye…

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bronny on November 22, 2010 at 2:08 pm.

thank you for saying pretty much everything i was thinking while reading the interview with her!

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carrie on November 22, 2010 at 2:29 pm.

I agree with spacedcowgirl, beautiful closing paragraph. Inspiring. Thank you.

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DEL on November 22, 2010 at 2:35 pm.

Speaking of body autonomy and shaming… I ran across this yesterday:
http://voraciouseats.com/2010/11/19/a-vegan-no-more/
It is the harrowing tale of a woman who was a deeply committed vegan activist who learned that her vegan lifestyle was destroying her health. It is a very thoughtful chronicle of a woman coming face to face with how her ethical choices ultimately had to line up with her health choices — she could not force her food choices to be entirely about her ethical stance in other words. Then, when she makes the tough decision to save her life by becoming omnivorous again, she gets widely attacked and shamed by other vegans who want to universalize their experience.
It’s a long post, but well worth reading.

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fatvegancommie on November 23, 2010 at 7:43 am.

Interesting reading and probably a true experience, but when she says eating meat keeps the planet healthy….um, no. Animal agriculture is incredibly destructive to the environment.

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Sarah on November 24, 2010 at 1:30 am.

You obviously didn’t read the whole post, because she said nothing of the sort. You are making biased conclusions based on your personal belief that your vegan diet is saving the planet. What a person chooses to eat is their choice – we don’t have the right to force our lifestyle onto others. As for animal agriculture destroying the planet, tell that to the millions who work in the field and to the millions who are fed because of it.

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Artefact Redux on November 22, 2010 at 2:49 pm.

Wow…really? I’m not happy 100% of the time. But you know what, I had the same exact mental issues when I was a size six, plus the anxiety of still not being skinny enough.

It is an uphill battle, every day. And just because she couldn’t cut it doesn’t mean she can cast us all in her miserable light.

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drst on November 22, 2010 at 3:51 pm.

“You don’t need that validation — you don’t need to convince the whole world that everyone is just like you in order to justify yourself. If it is good for you, then that is enough.”

It sounds so simple, doesn’t it? If everyone was able to function that way, so much would be different. But people, myself included, somehow struggle with such a basic idea as this, and since we can’t believe it for our own sakes, we go to all these lengths to assure ourselves we’re not just being selfish, that other people feel the same way, therefore what we feel is okay. It suggests a deep level of insecurity about many, many things.

I wonder if this is connected to the resentment that gets expressed towards people who don’t outwardly show signs of being uncomfortable in their bodies. It’s less jealousy than “I have to struggle with all this stuff, it’s not fair that you don’t!” that morphs into mocking and/or anger and/or denial.

drst

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cutselvage on November 22, 2010 at 3:53 pm.

Thank you for writing this post – I haven’t read the interview, not really in the headspace to deal with that at the moment – but your rebuttals are perfectly on point.

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Elle on November 22, 2010 at 4:04 pm.

So as a teen fat girl, I have no right to be happy with who I am?

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Lesley on November 22, 2010 at 4:11 pm.

Not only that, but apparently you should be protected from evil influences such as this blog! Haha.

We should all have the right to happiness whatever form it takes.

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Other Becky on November 22, 2010 at 5:57 pm.

Well, yeah, Elle. If you were happy with who you were, you might keep being fat. As we all know, making people intensely unhappy with and ashamed of their own bodies ALWAYS leads to weight loss!*

*Where “always” = < 1% of the time

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Atchka on November 22, 2010 at 4:05 pm.

One of our bloggers (Statistical Freak) wrote this excellent post on Reece when she first officially broke with Fat Acceptance.

But this interview? Yeah… she’s gone over the edge.

Peace,
Shannon

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Christine on November 22, 2010 at 5:15 pm.

Oh man, that last paragraph. Totally not teary right now. Nope not at all.

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tigi on November 22, 2010 at 5:29 pm.

Teens and twenty somethings are particularly easy to target if you sell them the right ‘dream’ which in this case is plus-size fashion and that ‘fat’ = strong, happy, comfortable etc.

TELL me about it, Reece. I mean, I heard nothing but how awesome and hip being fat was back in my teen years, when I was being raised in Opposite Land.

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Lesley on November 23, 2010 at 3:14 pm.

This made me LOL a whole lot.

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tigi on November 24, 2010 at 11:46 am.

Hooray! I get to cross something off of my bucket list! (Made someone who makes me laugh a lot laugh a lot.)

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terriblemother on December 1, 2010 at 2:39 am.

Best. Comment. Evah.

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Frances on November 22, 2010 at 5:50 pm.

“I was very well known in that community for a long time” – Um… what? My horn, let me toot it for you.

I’ve never understood that idea that fat acceptance is the dominant discourse and dieting is this subersive act. This isn’t the first time I’ve heard the world framed that way on a plus size resource.

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Living400lbs on November 22, 2010 at 6:59 pm.

“I was very well known in that community for a long time” – Um… what?

More like “Really? Where?”

I’ve never understood that idea that fat acceptance is the dominant discourse and dieting is this subersive act.

That’s because it isn’t.

I have met people who assume that self-acceptance is the norm and that dieting is an option if they decide it’s necessary — mainly, if they decide they’re no longer “pudgy” but are moving into “too fat”, and if they feel it won’t take time away from work and other important things. They were all white men working in white-collar professions.

(The cultural assumption is that women are always watching their waists, but men have a choice because they may have More Important Things To Do Too.)

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Frances on November 22, 2010 at 9:40 pm.

More like “Really? Where?”

Yeah, I know! I had seen her blog, but I certainly didn’t think she was more well known than any other blogger. She’s no Lesley Kinzel, that’s for sure.

The one other example of ‘FA is the norm’ I know of is Skorch. They had one of their video bloggers SPEAKING OUT about being a client of Weight Watchers. Ugh.

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Lesley on November 23, 2010 at 3:16 pm.

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE. And really that’s for the best. I’m not sure the planet could contain the combined mass of two or more.

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gostephaniego on November 22, 2010 at 6:11 pm.

“Teens and twenty somethings are particularly easy to target if you sell them the right ‘dream’ …”

No, Vanessa Reece. People like YOU are particularly easy to target, because people like you don’t think, or don’t want to think, about anything that isn’t neatly laid out in a black-and-white package tied up with a ribbon that you can dogmatically support or oppose. I’m 21 and how dare you drag me into your sad little world full of absolute rights and wrongs?

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shyvixen on November 22, 2010 at 7:24 pm.

I would like to be a Fat Acceptance Operative, that sounds very secret-agent and cool. Where do I sign up?

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Frances on November 22, 2010 at 9:41 pm.

Yes! Can we have fancy gadgets like Maxwell Smart?

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Liz on November 22, 2010 at 7:27 pm.

Hi Lesley, thanks for writing this – I tried to write how I felt about it and how angry I was over on my blog, but you have articulated exactly how I feel about it. Universalising experience, whether it is about bodies, ethnicity, disability or whatever, is just asking for trouble. I felt kind of silenced, if you know what I mean? It’s hard to explain, but your post has really hit the nail on the head – I was feeling silenced because she universalised her experiences and made me feel as though she was trivialising everyone’s experiences with their own body. A person’s relationship with their body is personal, and a person has the right to define and articulate that relationship.

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Michelle on November 22, 2010 at 7:34 pm.

Wow, I’m really bothered by her reference to depression — I have chronic, clinical depression, and have since I was about 12.

Guess what? I also had it while I was thin.

Does having depression somehow impugn my credibility? This is an incredibly ableist assumption, and I’m personally quite hurt by it. Does having depression mean that I am fundamentally incapable of understanding my field (nutrition?) That my ability to parse and critically appraise scientific papers is permanently diminished?

Also, the reason I got involved with fat acceptance was because, when I successfully lost weight, I was no happier in my body than before, and actually felt worse about myself. Am I perfectly happy now, as a fat person? No. Being fat is, frankly, a pain in my ass sometimes. Am I happier than I was while losing weight? Yes, quite a lot happier, actually.

I don’t expect that everyone’s cost-benefit analysis will come to the same conclusion as mine. A small minority of people DO apparently find success with weight loss. But a lot of us don’t — or else we find that the “success” in pounds lost is not worth the price we have to pay physically and emotionally to sustain it. And even the most diet-happy obesity researchers will tell you we are in the vast majority.

Even if we weren’t, we’d still be entitled to interpret our own experiences and make our own choices about our bodies — just like Reece has — without being presumed to be incompetent, deluded asses.

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Meowser on November 23, 2010 at 7:02 am.

Does having depression somehow impugn my credibility? This is an incredibly ableist assumption, and I’m personally quite hurt by it.

You tell ‘em. I hate to break the news to her, but if it weren’t for the fact that FA made it possible for me to stay on the drugs that got my depression into full remission, even though they made me a child-eating deathfatty, there’s a pretty good chance my depression would have killed me.

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Nomie on November 23, 2010 at 7:20 am.

This was my reaction too, Michelle. I am, in fact, far less depressed as a size 22 than I was as a size 12 – mostly because I am no longer in high school, am now taking antidepressants and am in therapy, and have a much better support network of people who love and support me. Ableism about mental health and fat hatred are both bad enough, but combining them like this is pretty gross.

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drst on November 22, 2010 at 8:09 pm.

To clarify, by “If everyone was able to function that way” I meant “if everyone was free to and allowed and encouraged” rather than the implied “people are broken if they don’t do this” ableism there. Sorry about that.

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maggie on November 22, 2010 at 8:57 pm.

Uh oh, the secret of the Fat Agenda is out! Muahahaha, coming for your children!

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JupiterPluvius on November 22, 2010 at 9:44 pm.

What is she on? Since we know that 95% of people fail to lose weight through diet or exercise, how does she think all of these people are going to give up FA and see the light? Or does she really think they should just be miserable?

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eli on November 22, 2010 at 9:46 pm.

That’s right, Reece. I’m only fat for the sweet-ass empire waist polyester shirts that cost $80.

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Michelle on November 22, 2010 at 9:46 pm.

Wow…really? I’m not happy 100% of the time. But you know what, I had the same exact mental issues when I was a size six, plus the anxiety of still not being skinny enough.

Quoted for absolute, MFing truth.

The bottom line is, my happiness has far more to do with how much I accept and respect myself than by how objectively large my body is. I was miserable when I passed for thin but hated my body. And now, even with the added burden of social stigma and some accessibility issues, my ability to live peacefully with my body means I am far happier.

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Jami on November 22, 2010 at 10:32 pm.

I’d like to know where these so-called “beautiful” plus size fashion is cause I sure as shootin’ haven’t seen any. I’ve seen bigger versions of the skinny girls’ clothes – which are fugly as all get out with their horizontial stripes, big busy patterns, and either sleeveless, capped sleeves, or those “bunch in your armpits” slash sleeves that only serve to make people look heavier then they really are. Seriously, things only a woman so thin her chest is concave should wear. Not anyone else, not even a 125 pound chick should wear them.

That’s why I really wish I knew how to sew, because I know what passes for plus size fashion is really just crap designed to make us look in the mirror and hate ourselves. It’s like the fashion industry is hoping we’ll all commit sucide so they won’t have to listen to us complain about their super skinny models any more.

“Beautiful plus size fashion” my fat ass!

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Natalie on November 22, 2010 at 11:31 pm.

ALL OF THIS.
Thank you.

I was pretty horrified when I read these interviews. Vanessa even namechecked me once as being a body acceptance role model and it makes me feel like I am not doing a good enough job when I see these horrid assumptions made about people who are fighting against this hurtful crap all the time.

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Frances on November 23, 2010 at 12:49 am.

Do we consider obesity something to aspire to or that we want to promote with young people? No one in the Fashion world wants to address that yet, because it’s still so new in the grand scheme of things. And no-one wants to annoy the plus-size target market.

Seriously. What world does she live in?

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Nicole Murphy on November 23, 2010 at 2:15 am.

I came across the idea of fat acceptance a little while ago, and have been struggling to fit it into my own life experience. Yes, I absolutely agree that people need to accept and love who they are and that the physical package isn’t an important part of that. However, my own experience has been that when I’m at my heaviest, it does have a negative impact on my life in terms of physicality and fitness.

However, what you’ve said is exactly what I needed to hear to reconcile it all – fat acceptance is about acceptance of the individual. People shouldn’t be judged for the choices they make, but loved. If they’re happy where they are – bully for them. If they need to make changes, be that get fitter or healthier or lose or gain weight, then support them in that.

Let people be people and do what you can to help them live a life where they can be happy.

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Lesley on November 23, 2010 at 3:23 pm.

I’m glad this helped you! I am generally a big believer in not condemning individuals for their private decisions, but rather I prefer to criticize and deconstruct the culture and institutions that assert that the ONLY path to happiness is via a smaller dress size, by any means necessary.

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Meowser on November 23, 2010 at 6:31 am.

You know, it’s funny. This “Vanessa Reece” person claims she was “very well known” in FA, and I’ve been in FA for 15 years now and this is the first I’ve ever heard of her! Another diet-head in the honeymoon phase, YAWN. She has no idea how many of us have already been there and wound up with plenty of egg on our faces, including the yolks too.

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Kath on November 23, 2010 at 6:59 am.

You know what? Vanessa Reece wants your money. And my money. She’s got something to sell, and she’s trying to discredit the Fat Acceptance movement because it indirectly suggests that giving her money might be a waste of said money. I did know of her before her “transformation” (though only because she followed me on Twitter and @replied to me a lot) and she was in no way “very well known”. I read her blog in the pre-transformation days and I could see a very unhappy woman who hated herself and I also saw the lightbulb moments happen for her where she decided that she could “brand” herself and make some money. Her transformation was not about weight loss, it was about money gain.

The sad thing is I believe she’s probably projecting a lot of those things she claims that we “suffer” from herself. The woman who used to blog pre-transformation definitely did. Whether or not any of us do suffer them (and there is no shame in suffering from depression, poor self esteem or health issues anyway), I think she points those things out because she wants to deflect attention from herself on those subjects.

Nevertheless, all I felt when I read her post-transformation work was that I was being given a sales spiel.

Great response piece Lesley.

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Veronica on November 23, 2010 at 8:04 am.

Thank you for writing this Lesley, reading stuff like this makes me so fucking blue, and having you as a buffer between me and this hatefulness felt … necessary.
I don’t understand the world this woman lives in where dieting is the “brave” thing to do.
As others have mentioned, the ending paragraph was very beautiful (and true)!

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Loulou on November 23, 2010 at 6:56 pm.

Awesome. Thanks for this fantastically written piece :)

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Diana on November 24, 2010 at 12:17 am.

Thank you for this. Usually the safety valve in my brain shuts off its operation as my rage levels rise when I read stuff like what you analyzed; I’m glad someone can remain calm, eloquent and operational.

I also now want a T-shirt that says “I accept my body because doing so really fucks with YOU.”

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Sarah T on November 30, 2010 at 7:18 am.

That t-shirt should be added to the list of future Two Whole Cakes merchandise RIGHT NOW, seriously.

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Fiona on November 25, 2010 at 5:01 am.

Just… wow.

I read the quotes and was like, “Is this woman living in the same reality as I am?”

Alternate realities, guys. THEY EXIST.

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